Posts by Marvin Shilmer

20

Who owns the Kingdom Halls?

by No Apologies in

jw
friends

on another thread ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/86931/2.ashx ) i saw these comments:.

think again, the kingdom halls are paid for by the local witnesses, and when its paid off, its donated back to the wt society, what an elaborate scheme!!!

when the construction is finished the congo finally has it's own kh, right?

The information I presented is a directive dated March 1, 2000 that was sent as an enclose with a BOE letter dated April 1, 2000. According to the April 1, 2000 letter COs and DOs were copied with both.

Though I do not currently have the copy in my library, COs were given a letter of instruction to check that congregations acted on the March 1, 2000 directive. This is also evidenced by a small change to the S-303 forms used by COs to report to the WTS on a congregation?s activity. The change is the addition of a single sentence in the line-item of reminders on page two. The added reminder reads:

Are the congregations property documents up-to-date, and has the annual safety inspection been performed?

The two items indicated in the above line-item reminder are the subjects of the April 1, 2000 BOE letter. The updating was the charter/article of incorporation changes.

Marvin Shilmer

47

Other than Ray Franz - who is the "highest level" JW to leave? Know any?

by confusedjw in

i'm aware of ed dunlap from coc - but who else of the upper echelon?

Marvin Shilmer

Hello, No Apologies

I know Maximus personally. He worked in Bethel?s editing department (now writing department) back in the late fifties and early sixties. Later he worked as a district overseer.

While in editing he worked side by side with the NWT committee putting the NWT together.

Marvin Shilmer

20

Who owns the Kingdom Halls?

by No Apologies in

jw
friends

on another thread ( http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/86931/2.ashx ) i saw these comments:.

think again, the kingdom halls are paid for by the local witnesses, and when its paid off, its donated back to the wt society, what an elaborate scheme!!!

when the construction is finished the congo finally has it's own kh, right?

Marvin Shilmer

Hello, No Apologies

So long as a congregation remains solvent it has use of the Kingdom Hall. But should a congregation dissolve then the WTS has instructed that congregations take measures today to ensure that the Kingdom Hall property assets go to the WTS. Under the subheading ARTICLES OF INCORPORATION, in a directive dated March 1, 2000 the WTS writes:

?Please note that the following two paragraphs are to be included in your charter or articles of incorporation (this may require an amendment to your existing charter or articles of incorporation):
....
?Upon the winding up and dissolution of this Corporation, after paying or adequately providing for debts and obligations of the Corporation, the remaining assets shall be distributed to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc?.?

Above I have quoted the relevant portion of the document. Of the two paragraphs mentioned in the outset, I have omitted the first paragraph and included the opening sentence of the second paragraph. The information omitted is typical language and does not alter or modify the portion quoted above.

Each year since the March 1, 2000 directive was issued COs have been instructed to inquire that the indicated provision has been amended into the congregations charter or articles of incorporation, whichever is applicable.

There is truth to what you have heard.

Marvin Shilmer

71

Quotes by Thiele concerning Watchtower Chronology

by VM44 in

does anyone know where is is documented that thiele made the following quotes?

as bible scholar e. r. thiele said about a watchtower article on chronology, "it reminds me of the way an unscrupulous lawyer would deal with facts in order to support a case he knows not to be sound.

http://www.geocities.com/athens/academy/6040/kc.htm

Marvin Shilmer

S writes:

"Why did {Thiele} say what he did?"

Because as an honest and reputable scholar he wanted to provide as accurate a depiction as he could. This is why reputable scholars write what they write.

Marvin Shilmer

71

Quotes by Thiele concerning Watchtower Chronology

by VM44 in

does anyone know where is is documented that thiele made the following quotes?

as bible scholar e. r. thiele said about a watchtower article on chronology, "it reminds me of the way an unscrupulous lawyer would deal with facts in order to support a case he knows not to be sound.

http://www.geocities.com/athens/academy/6040/kc.htm

Marvin Shilmer

S Writes:

"{Thiels's} comment surely would indicate that Ptolemy's Canon has limits or is qualified in some way. Perhaps to imform the reader not to think that the canon is infallible or something like that."

Yes. Thiele's statement was a qualification. It qualified that Ptolemy's Canon was not composed primarily for historical purposes but nevertheless can be used with the fullest of confidence as a historical guide so far as its information goes. He also stated that the primary purpose of the Canon was for astronomical purposes. To know this all you have to do is read what he actually wrote. You know, what he actually said versus what anyone else wanted him to mean.

Marvin Shilmer, who believes S has no shame

71

Quotes by Thiele concerning Watchtower Chronology

by VM44 in

does anyone know where is is documented that thiele made the following quotes?

as bible scholar e. r. thiele said about a watchtower article on chronology, "it reminds me of the way an unscrupulous lawyer would deal with facts in order to support a case he knows not to be sound.

http://www.geocities.com/athens/academy/6040/kc.htm

Marvin Shilmer

S writes:

"That Ptolemy's Canon is only suitable for astronomical purposes"

Dude you would have to be as deaf, dumb and blind to think this is what Thiele said, and intellectually dishonest too. The fact that Thiele said, "the canon of Ptolemy may be used as a historical guide" directly disputes your claim. And his later statement that the canon was not prepared primarily for historical purposes is in no way contradictory because it says no more than it was not PRIMARILY for historical purposes. It does not say that the canon was unsuitable for historical purposes.

The fraudulence of your presentation on this whole subject is only exceeded by its transparency.

Marvin Shilmer

71

Quotes by Thiele concerning Watchtower Chronology

by VM44 in

does anyone know where is is documented that thiele made the following quotes?

as bible scholar e. r. thiele said about a watchtower article on chronology, "it reminds me of the way an unscrupulous lawyer would deal with facts in order to support a case he knows not to be sound.

http://www.geocities.com/athens/academy/6040/kc.htm

Marvin Shilmer

S writes:

?The facts are these:

?1. Theile in his earlier outlined hi methodology and his use of Ptolemy's Canon, He stated that "the canon of Ptolemy may be used as a historical guide with the fullest confidence". MNHK, 1965, 2nd.edn., p.44. Later on in the Appendix H, p.216-7: He made a rather startling and controversial admission. He admits now that "Ptolemy's canon was prepared primarily for astronomical, not historical purposes. It did not pretend to give a complete list of all the rulers of Babylon or Persia...but it was a device which made possible the correct allocation into a broad chronological of certain astronomical data which were then available".?

So far so good.

S writes:

?Now one needs to reflect at what Thiele is trying to say. He is not alive today so we cannot ask of him his meaning for this statement and why he felt the need to make it.. Thus in his absence, a scholar must interpret his words.I believe that Thiele is ambiguous and honest in this statement and seems to be saying that one needs to be cautious with Ptolemy because it may well be that there is some missing data.?

You are write that no one needs to reflect on what Thiele is trying to say, because he said what he was trying to say. Given his demise, it is a good thing he wrote what he intended to say so that unethical wannabe scholars can?t lie today about what he was trying to say, least not lie and get away with it!

In Thiele?s absence a scholar must not write Thiele in his own image. Rather, in his absence, a scholar will take great care to present what Thiele said for himself.

What did Thiele say with his words that S cited? Simply that though Ptolemy?s cannon was not composed for historical purposes is can be used confidently as a historical guide. He also stated that the primary purpose was for astronomical purposes. This is probably very much like S? daily diary. It is not written primarily to record an insider?s look at a work in progress, but it can be used as such a guide with the fullest of confidence!

Marvin Shilmer

34

Blood Transfusions Kill Patients, Say Doctors

by JW Ben in

blood transfusions kill patients, say doctors .

(picture: your health daily logo) february 11 1999

london (nyt syndicate) -- blood transfusions given routinely to tens of thousands of critically ill patients may be killing them, doctors have found.

Marvin Shilmer

Howdy, JW Ben

The material you cite provides timely warning against inappropriate application of blood transfusion. On the other hand, the material you cite underscores blood transfusion as a viable medical therapeutic with it is appropriately applied. Thanks for the confirmation!

Marvin Shilmer

21

Can JWs EAT Blood?

by Marvin Shilmer in

can jws eat blood?

scenario: .

a jw is bleeding.

Marvin Shilmer

MySuperSecret writes:

?No Blood in surgery results in saving more lives then not. People die from complications from blood transfusion more then they like to admit. FAR more people die because of blood transfusions then will ever die because of NOT having blood tansfusions. As for those children, well thankfully there getting ressurected.?

Other than the biblical hope of resurrection, would you care to prove your claims above?

As for children and resurrection, I have no reason to doubt Jehovah will also resurrect the unsuspecting children that parents sacrificed the lives of at the behest of religious teachers. Do you think that fact lessens the bloodguilt of the religious leaders that taught the sacrificial course of action??Details at Jeremiah 7:31

Marvin Shilmer

33

Are we having an impact on the WTS?

by Maverick in

jw
friends

thanks to pro-active people like simon i do believe we have an impact on the wts.

i think ex-witnesses are better adjusted and recover quicker because of these web sites.

i know i was able to deprogram and come to terms with being in that cult for 24 years much quicker than being divorced after 15 years.

Marvin Shilmer

The online world is the WTS' Vietnam.

The decentralized nature of online contributors makes it impossible for the WTS to combat, or to defeat. This is all the more true when contributors offer factual information that is damning to WTS doctrine, policies, practices and operations.

The GB has been frustrated to a maddening degree several times over the past decade because of information made public on online forums.

Child abuse
UN NGO
Blood
Silencing whistle blowers
Breakup of families
Lying about its history
Disfellowshipping members for speaking what is true
Coddling the likes of the German Nazi government
Refusing to openly discuss issues of complaint
Closed judicial processes

Each of these issues has caused unimaginable frustration within GB sessions. This is why BG members refuse detailed media interviews unless questions are given and approved in detail and in advance. Since the questions everyone wants answers to are outside the GB's ability to answer rationally, all these requested interviews are declined. The material principle at work is: Even the stupid can appear wise if they remain silent.

Marvin Shilmer